Army-Building by Vibe: Stas, Orcs & Goblins, and the Big Table Dream
Sometimes the best way to solve list-building paralysis is… to stop solving it the normal way.
That was exactly where Stas landed while working on a list for Dragon. Instead of trimming points, swapping upgrades, and staring at the same few slots forever, he tried something much more fun: starting from the army he actually wanted to see on a big table.
And honestly? We get it completely.
Starting from the dream army
Stas described it in the most relatable way possible: forget the points for a moment, and just imagine the force we’d be excited to push across the table in a proper big game.
The picture came together fast:
- two blocks of 30 boyz
- two units of 20 goblins
- boar boyz
- wolf riders
- two chariots
- doom diver
- trolls
And then came the punchline: it ended up being nearly 2500 points.
Which, to be fair, sounds less like a problem and more like a sign from Gork, Mork, or both.
Stas summed it up perfectly: this approach didn’t really help with the Dragon event list at all, but it did make one thing very clear — we just want to play bigger games already.
That feeling is extremely familiar. Sometimes a smaller format is great for learning, testing, and getting reps in, but it can also leave you craving the full spectacle: ranked infantry, support pieces, weird threats, and enough bodies on the board for the army to feel like an actual army.
The Dragon problem: what stays, what goes?
Once the big-table daydream settled, the conversation came back to the more practical question: what actually makes sense for Dragon?
Stas brought up two specific Orcs & Goblins choices based on our recent Cinquecento games:
- Nasty Skulkers
- Orc Boar Chariot
He also mentioned something we found interesting right away: the Skulkers had actually done reasonably well during Cinquecento, but Fanatics still feel much stronger — even if they cost around two and a half times as much. At the same time, there was a temptation to try a list with no goblins at all this time.
That alone is such a classic army-building fork in the road. Do we lean into the tricks and disruption package, or do we simplify and go harder on the more straightforward, durable parts of the army?
Here’s the list Stas linked during the discussion:
Our first impressions after Cinquecento
The funniest part of the discussion was that not everyone felt qualified to judge.
Michał basically said he probably wasn’t the best person to comment, because things hadn’t gone especially well for him against them.
Ender had a similarly honest take: he was mostly busy shooting, so it was hard to evaluate properly. In his game, the Skulkers got removed before they really got to pop out, and the chariot ended up getting blocked partly thanks to some tactical suggestions.
So while there were observations, there was also a healthy amount of caution. One game, one angle, one matchup — that’s never the full story.
Nasty Skulkers: still interesting
Wilini had the most concrete opinion here, and it matched Stas’s earlier instinct pretty well.
The short version: they seem pretty good, mainly because of Strike First. If we’re already playing goblins, the suggestion was to add one to each unit and go up to the maximum of three across the army, just like Stas had been considering.
That feels like a very sensible middle ground. Skulkers may not have the raw table-warping reputation of Fanatics, but they do offer a nasty little surprise and can make goblin units feel much less passive than they first appear.
The catch, of course, is that they only matter if they get to matter. If they get shot off the board or the unit never gets the right fight, their value can be hard to feel. Still, based on our limited games, nobody wrote them off.
Orc Boar Chariot: maybe judged a bit unfairly
The chariot discussion was even more “it depends,” but in a promising way.
Wilini pointed out that if the boar chariot had hit a flank instead of going through a forest into spikes, it might have done quite a lot. And that really sounds like the key takeaway: the chariot may not have underperformed because it’s bad, but because its opportunity was awkward.
That’s an important distinction in list-building. Some units are weak because they never produce enough impact. Others just need cleaner delivery. A boar chariot definitely feels like the second kind of unit.
So after our Cinquecento games, we’d say the verdict is still open — but not negative.
Two big blocks of boyz sounds right
One part of Stas’s “dream army” got immediate approval: two blocks of boyz.
Wilini liked that idea a lot, mainly because they seem fairly tough. At least, tough enough when measured against his shooting and against peasants that weren’t buffed by Lady’s Wrath.
And honestly, that tracks with the whole direction of the list. If the goal is to put something on the table that feels solid, plays proactively, and doesn’t rely entirely on little tricks, then two proper units of boyz sound like a very real backbone.
That may also be why the idea of cutting back on goblins is tempting. Goblins bring tools, but boyz bring presence.
Outside inspiration for Orcs & Goblins list-building
To round things out, Wilini shared a video that looked pretty close to what Stas was already circling around.
What stood out is how much overlap there seems to be with Stas’s instincts already:
- doom diver
- fanatics
- a bit of goblins, but not too much
- boyz as the core
- black orcs
- squig riders
That kind of outside confirmation is always nice. Not because it proves there’s one correct build, but because it suggests the list ideas are converging around something coherent.
Where we landed
We didn’t solve Stas’s Dragon list once and for all in this conversation.
But we did get to something useful:
- the big-game Orcs & Goblins vision sounds great
- Skulkers still seem playable and interesting
- Fanatics probably remain the scarier option if we want raw power
- the boar chariot may deserve another chance under better circumstances
- two big blocks of boyz sound like a very solid core
Maybe the most important outcome, though, is that this was a reminder that list-building doesn’t always have to begin with constraints. Sometimes it’s better to start with enthusiasm, with the picture in our heads of what we actually want to deploy, and only then work backward toward the points limit.
Even if it doesn’t immediately solve the tournament version.
Especially then.
The real conclusion
Stas may still be tuning for Dragon, but the real message from this whole exchange is simple:
we’re ready for bigger games.
And if that means two blocks of boyz, goblin support, fast cavalry, chariots, artillery, and trolls all rumbling onto the table at once, then honestly, that sounds exactly like the kind of Orcs & Goblins army we want to see.